HBOs Sharp Objects, which just aired its fifth episode, is a classic kind of star vehicle for Amy Adams. Shes in nearly every scene (and other people tend to talk about her even when shes not). Her character, reporter Camille Preaker, is perpetually drunk, a cutter who has carved a few hundred words onto her body, and has to confront the traumas of her own past even as she investigates a pair of child murders in her sweltering Missouri hometown. Its a great performance, in a great miniseries.
Its just as much of a star vehicle for the projects director, Jean-Marc Valle, who, as he did on Big Little Lies,helmed all the episodes and infused them with his trademark blurring of the lines between past and present, between reality and imagination. Adams is wonderful, as are co-stars like Eliza Scanlen (who plays Camilles half-sister Amma) and Patricia Clarkson (family matriarch Adora), and the scripts by novelist Gillian Flynn (based on her first book of the same name), creator Marti Noxon and others are as well-honed as the tools Camille uses to scar herself. But its Valles temporally fluid style, and the way it puts us right inside the head of this emotionally and physically wrecked woman, that elevates Sharp Objects into something more than another gothic murder mystery about another set of dead girls.
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I recently spoke with Valle about how he develops rapports with actors, the process of shooting and cutting together (Valle also works as an editor on the project) all the scenes of adult Camille and her teenage self (played by Its Sophia Lillis), why Camille listens to so much Led Zeppelin, and a lot more (with full spoilers for the season so far).
I recently interviewed Jennifer Garner, who you directed in Dallas Buyers Club. When I mentioned Id be seeing you, she lit up and said, Please tell him I said hello, I would love to work with him again. Do you get that a lot? And even performers youve never worked with reaching out and saying, Please put me in something?
Yes, I think Im known for this. I love actors and I love projects that give them space and room, and I aim for these projects where the characters are that important. So the actors will be attracted to that.
How do you develop that kind of rapport with actors, where they feel comfortable? When you sat down with Amy to figure out Camille, what did you guys do?
She does her homework, I do mine. The book was our bible. And then it happens on the set, whether its with Amy or with the women onBLL Nicole, Reese, Shailene, Laura Dern or the guys onDallas Buyers Club. The job is to tell stories and find the right shot, the right lens, but mainly to capture great performances that I can believe in, and the audiences can believe in it, can relate to it, can be touched by it, laugh about it because its funny, or be emotional or be scared or feel the violence. Im their first audience, and they can feel it. I can get as emotional as they have to, and Im there on the set, Im not behind the monitor, so its all about capturing the magic.
So with Amy, once we started to shoot, the process was to talk about it in a very cerebral way, because thats how she is. She wants in the morning a discussion on what we have to achieve, what we have to do during the day, and theres an intellectual conversation. And she challenges words, lines, intentions, where are we. We go back to the book, we go back to the script with the scene. And then she arrives later on the set and she stops being cerebral and it becomes instinct and it becomes spectacular. How natural she can be so easily and the way she understands the medium and where the camera is with the lens that its on 95 percent we use a 35-mm lens that allows a respect of the distance between the actors. [He begins using utensils on the table to represent Amy Adams and Patricia Clarksons positions relative to each other in scenes.] And when Camille is here and Adoras here, theres a distance between them. And I like to keep this. And if Im gonna go tight on Adora, its because Amys gonna walk to her or its because Adoras gonna come here.
And she got this kind of grammar language that were trying to do in the set so they can move freely. Theres no mark, theres no spotlight, they dont feel the heat of a cinema spot, so thats different for them. To arrive in this environment and to be free, it feels more like a reality. So, thats how it starts.
When you work with somebody new, how long does it take for them to stop intellectualizing and just go with it in the way you described?
I think it takes a day. Once were done with the shoot and they start working on something else, I get a call and they go, Jesus, Im waiting an hour for the light to be ready and the tracks, come back, I miss you guys.
With Amy in particular, was there a point early on where you were shooting a scene and you felt, OK, now she gets it?
It happened on the first day, in a scene thats not even in the series anymore. She got it right there. The way we shoot in the cars also we dont put the car on the trailer, we dont put the camera outside, were with them inside. And were doing French overs [where the camera is placed over the actors inside shoulder] from the passenger seat, the back seat, or were on the passenger seat doing profile, or we put a smaller camera on the dash so you have a three-quarter frontal. So were always with them and we see what they see, the perspective. And then she gets that I see what she does, and I react to it with the [director of photography]. So shes going to tell us how to design the shots. Shes going to move, and were going to move with her. She stops and she looks at Amma, were going to show her POV. Then Im going to go back on her, because I want to see her face and her reaction. Then shes going to walk to Adora, then Im gonna walk with her and finish on Adora, and then I want to see her reaction.
Theres no shots lists. Were designing on the day according to what the main character is doing. Im going to cover the scene also from the other female characters perspective and in the cutting room, allow them some moments but mainly its Amy. Its Camille starring, itll be seen through her perspective. Shes the only one that has this privilege of allowing the audience to go into her head. So we see what she thinks of, what she dreams of, what shes scared of.
Do you have to shoot a lot more material than normal in order to be able to cut all the past and present scenes together the way that you do?
I wouldnt say a lot more, but I shoot more. We always take some time to think and to go, What can she be thinking of right now, and what can we shoot, what can we add? We have 20 minutes as were waiting for another actor or something else from the crew. We dont wait for lighting, but sometimes you wait for actors, or wardrobe or [Amys] scars. And then, we get creative and we think about this. And then it happens in the cutting room. So for this one, this language, this grammar was created by instinct when I shot C.R.A.Z.Y. in 2004. And then I did it more and more onCaf de Flore, with these characters where we were seeing what they were thinking and even more. And then I did it withDallas, and pushed it further withDemolition. I love to tell stories by doing this and applied it toBLL.And it became very, very important inSharp Objects also because it was replacing the internal monologue. The writers decided to adapt the novel without a voice-over. At the beginning, I challenged them, and I thought, Really? Is this a good idea?
We loved the book and we love to hear her think and the way she talks about herself, her imperfection, her sexuality, her family, her mom. Her angle on the world is so sharp, so good, so unique. And then its not there on the first script that I read, and I asked, Are we going to put a voice-over? And they went, No. I said, Oh, aye-aye [laughs]. And then the other scripts came in and I went, OK, I get it. I think we can do it. And its in the cutting room that we really figured out this thing of all these quick flashes, without using the sound of the past, and we keep the sound of the present: Shes in her car and she starts thinking about Alice in rehab, because she just put a song on and remembers, that makes her think of Alice. So we keep that song from the present with the texture of her cheap speakers in her car. Its not a perfect sound. It sounds bad and theres some wind from the window that is down and its un-perfect and thats what I tell all the collaborators: Lets make it un-perfect. Everything is raw and un-perfect and thats the way we shoot. We shoot the rehearsals and blocking and the focus puller doesnt have any rehearsals, so hes discovering what the actors are doing and hes pulling focus and trying to be sharp.
So in the cutting room, we realized that this thing was replacing the internal monologue and it was giving us, the first audience, this impression of, Oh my god, we really see the world based on her, and her story, and her demons, her past, her memories and fears, and then all these words. That was another thing where, we got this idea in the cutting room: Why dont we put words in the reality where were going to see carved on a table, when shes going to look down at a knife, were going to write down a word that is carved on the table that is burning on her skin. Gillian refers to 74 words in the book, on Camilles body. We had to put more on her body because 74 wasnt enough to cover all the skin, so we created 200 more words on her body. But these 74 words, we use them in the cutting room, in her reality. So for instance, if youre Adora and youre looking at Amy, and you see this table Adora wont see the petticoat carved on the table, but if Im Amy, and this is her perspective, next to the knife here theres a word, petticoat, she will see it. She will see it in one frame, in one shot, then she wont look at it and well use the same angle and the word wont be there. Its just for a moment as its pulsing on her body. So this is another way of getting into her head and of adapting the book and the quality of the book, which was this woman having an obsession with words. She uses them to work as a journalist, she uses them to heal, she loves them, and she uses them to harm herself.
In the book, she just says, The word petticoat started to pulse on my leg. Well, were not doing this. So how are we going to represent this and use this? We came up with this device. And sometimes its like in episode one, when she closes the trunk of her car, someone wrote the word dirty on her trunk. And its there for six frames from her perspective. When its not her perspective, it wasnt there. When we see her going to her car, its not there, its just the objective point of view. Then we cut to her POV, its there. But its there for six frames, and we go What? Its hard to tell Then we revisit these moments when shes thinking, and she has a moment where shes reflecting on something. In that episode it was when shes in her car about to go back to her moms place and then she puts on lipstick. She stops, she thinks, and she sees this word again. So we go back to what she saw, and we go into her head and are telling the audience, See, youre going to follow this girl and see the story through her perspective, and what she thinks and what she sees is what youll see whether its in her head or not. So it became the thing with all the team of editors: Alright guys, lets push this and lets see how far we can go with it and how often. And the more we tried it, the more we loved it, the editors, myself, and the producers. And we went, I think we got something.
The story is many things, but one of those things is a mystery, which is on some level about objective truth. Youre telling this story with so much subjectivity. Is the word really there on the car, are these memories really right? How do you find a proper balance of Camilles subjective reality while still trying to tell this story and play fair with the audience?
I think to play fair with the audience is to be subjective and stick with Camille. She wants to be fair, she wants to solve the mystery, and we want to solve her. Because she represents a mystery too: What the hell happened to you? At the end of episode one we go, Wait a minute, this is gonna be something else then just a journalist investigating a murder mystery. Who the hell is this girl?
Its fascinating to me that you come in without a shot list and you find all of this in the cutting, because I think of something like the moment in the first episode where you see teenage Camille floating in the lake and adult Camille is in the bath, and the shots fit together like it was planned all along.
That was planned, but without a shot list. I take every script and I do a pass as a director, I put my directorial approach in it. So when Im there and Im reading this scene, I go, OK, Im gonna connect these two with the way shes gonna go into the bathtub at the motel and then the way shes gonna get out of the water. So I start to write how Im going to use perspectives, without using technical language without saying, Close top shot on young Camille, tight shot on Amy. I re-write in a way where its there, it suggests a shot, a visual. So the script becomes my base and my shot list, even though theres no shot list and numbers. But I know how I want to cut it and it becomes second nature of how to transition, how to shoot.
The other thing thats striking about that transition is that Sophia [Lillis], when you are just showing her eyes and her nose poking out of the water, shes a dead ringer for Amy.
We did a prosthetic with her nose. Sophias real face has a different nose. So every morning, she had to go in the makeup trailer and have Amys nose.
Theres another sequence involving the two of them in the first episode, Camille is moving from room to room upstairs and youre just going back and forth between the two of them and it looks seamless. How do you put something like that together so smoothly?
See thats an idea on the set, right there when we started to do these flashbacks. I went, Oh, why dont we put them both in the same time zone. So were in a flashback with young Camille, she gets out of the room very quickly, and then as soon as shes out of the room, I ask Amy to come on the set and to be in the flashback, in this shot. And then she looks, and now Im in the present time. The setup was the room in the Nineties, so I see young Camille getting out of the room, and as soon as shes out, Amys cue is to do the same but stop. And now we see the room in the present time in the 2000s. It was the same downstairs when theyre on the bench: She just arrived home, shes thinking of her young sister, and then shes there having these flashbacks. We dont see her face until the end, she stands. And when she stands, I told Amy, Why dont you come again? Youre gonna be in the flashback and then arrive at the door.
So its not even necessarily about assembling separate pieces youre literally shooting them at the same time.
Well, its playing with time. At one point its confused, and you go, Wait a minute, these two elements shouldnt be in the same frame. But were in her head, so we can allow this fantasy and this kind of visual. And it makes us confused but a good confusion where we want to know more. And then when young Camille runs to the door, we hear Adora go, Camille, and then we cut through her POV to see Adora coming; when we cut back its adult Camille that is behind the door, and we skip this moment in the present where we see Amy walking from the bench through the door we dont need it. Its all a thing that happened in the cutting room where we went, This is gonna work. And we dont need to be specific all the time and to have a respect of the time zone very precisely. So every time we were doing a flashback, I was asking Amy to come or I was with Amy asking the young girl to come in the room.
This is a different kind of cinematic grammar. Most grammar has rules. Does this?
No, Im always thinking about editing and how its going to cut together and the rhythm and the tone. Im first a good audience, then Im a director who loves to have fun with the whole thing, with this medium, with this toy. I feel like a kid, Ive got all these actors pretending and we got this camera. Theres some magic and some instinct that comes in, but it has to be thought of. It might look or seem that its just happening and its there in the room, but every single piece of music this is another thing where its part of the editing its source music. And the music is in the center of their lives, just like our lives.
Music helps define it. Music defines us, defines me. And this is what I love to do the most, besides directing actors. Its the use of music and putting it in the center and deciding who is going to be the DJ in this feature film or show. This one, just before we started to shoot, I couldnt find Camilles music background. And then it became, Oh, fuck yes: Shes not a music person. Which is rare, but there are some people like this. Shes going to listen to the music of someone else, her roommate that committed suicide, and her roommate is using music to escape, too. Not physically, but in her mind, to just fly away and feel better. And she taught Camille how to do this, how to use music to escape. And she uses her phone, and she has a broken glass phone Camille loves to touch the broken glass, of course, shes a cutter but she plays this kids music and we discovered this kids music that will become Camilles music. And thats why Led Zeppelin came in and all these tracks on this iPhone that belongs to this young girl, it becomes Camilles music. So Camille, Alan, Amma. These three characters are the main DJs of the series.
You wouldnt necessarily think of Zeppelin, and especially some of the Zeppelin deep cuts that you used, as the obvious choice for somebody young like Alice. When you were coming up with that as the idea, did you have to decide in your head how this girl in this era discovered this music?
Ive been wanting to use Zeppelin in a project forever, and I tried onCaf de Flore, didnt work out. Its very tough to license and expensive. And I had a feeling thatSharp Objectswas the perfect project to get a Zeppelin soundtrack, overall. To have this sound that is so sharp, that is so rock n roll, that is so loud. And this voice that is so sexy they know how to fucking rock and they know how to feel the sexiness. Im such a Zeppelin and a Stones fan, but the Stones never got that sexy. And for Camille, and the way she expresses her sexuality, I thought Zeppelin was great, so I went, Could [Alice] be a Zeppelin fan?
And I went, Why not? [Alice is] 17. Ive got a 21-year-old and a 26-year-old, and of course theyre into my music, because I wake up in the morning, I press play and sometimes, I go to bed I dont even press stop. So theres music all the time, and I contaminated my sons with my taste. So she probably got contaminated by either an older sister or mom or dad. To me, its seeing kids relate to vintage rock n roll, British rock n roll, and the sound makes sense. Particularly for a girl who wants to escape, Zeppelin is a great sound to escape. To feel like, I want to rock. And rock n roll is to make noise and to tell the establishment to fuck off.
Theres amazing, beautiful, soft tracks that are part of their repertoire but mainly, the energy of it, even in What Is and What Should Never Be, is very soft, when Camille is in the car. Like, What is she going to do? Is she going to have another masturbation sequence right now like we saw her? But when she had one there wasnt any music. Now what is she going to do? And then suddenly, she starts to head-bang, and then we get out of there. And then in episode three, this is where we realize, Oh, this music comes from this girl. When [Alice] asked [Camille], What kind of music are you listening to? Ehh, Im not really into music. Really? No wonder youre here girl, not enough music in your life. Uh, youre here too girl, FYI. And then [Alice] goes, Yeah, but with this, I can get the hell out of here whenever I want and she shows [Camille], and the song that she picks at this moment is Thank You.
Its funny how it becomes almost a thing where, Are these two going to have a love story? Is she going to fall for this kid? And were not sure yet who is Camille. Theres a sexual tension there, because of Zeppelin. Its a love track. And these two women are listening to it, are looking at each other and she goes like this on her eyes, shuts [them]. Its tender, its soft, its two women connecting, and were not sure yet: Whos this girl? How come shes obsessed with this phone and with this girl?And well find out at the end. And there is nothing sexual, but it feels like it a little bit, and its alright to feel like that because its the nature of the thing and the story and the song.
The fifth episode ends with Adora saying, And its why, I think, I never loved you.
Ay-yi-yi, the most violent scene of the film.
Tell me about filming that scene, working with Patricia and Amy, and what you wanted to accomplish there beyond what was already on the page.
We wanted a connection between mother and daughter, which from episode one through five wasnt possible. And just when we think theyre having a moment, and theyre finally talking with a drink, softly, allowing each other to confide, to talk about how they feel I wanted to apologize, yknow, No mama, you dont have to its simple, and I dont want to interfere. I just want to capture this and to respect the strength of the scene, which is the writing, and these actresses and these two characters. And just going tighter on Amy more than on Adora for the end part, where she receives this aggression: I never loved you. We had different versions of staying on her and at one point, the more were staying on her, it was powerful, but it was too long, and we started to have time to judge her and to think and to start, yknow, not appreciating the I dont love you. By getting out of there sooner than we would love to, were still under the shot and went, Wait a minute, I wanna kick the shit out of this mother.
Theres this tactile quality to Wind Gap thats palpable. Not just the sweat stains, but the way you can almost smell it, how you can always hear the crinkle of the Evian bottle when Amy squeezes it and the sound of the vodka sloshing around in it. How much effort had to go into creating that feeling?
Oh, man. When I got there for four weeks to shoot the town [Barnseville, GA], I got a shock of that because of the heat, the humidity and the fucking bugs. The junebugs and these insects that were there, and the ticks. But the sound of the bugs, you hear more bugs than birds. So I went, This is the sound of the series: Ssssss They eat the birds, theyre so big and so present and so many of them. We have a track that we call the 401, because scene 401 is when [Camille] is in the ditch, the beginning of episode four, when she picks up the phone that she threw away at the end of three. When we shot that early morning, the bugs were perfect, so loud. And the recording of them became the base of the whole series. So whether were at Bob Nashs house, were in the middle of town, were at the pig farm anywhere except at the Crellin house, [where] we can hear birds, because Adora is flowers and birds and its the perfect image of a perfect fucking house with birds, so we played the bugs lower we used that real sound. So every time it feels un-perfect and real, and we love it.
I asked the editors to do a first pass of sound designing, and we have our sound designer working with us as we start to cut the shows. So were very, very meticulous with all the details of wind and the fans. So all these sounds and the city looks like what it is. So you look, and the cars and the sound of the skates on the pavement everything feels [like] theres a lot of details, a lot insects, and its dense. I think you get this, and you feel like Uhhhh. Its uncomfortable.