The news landed like a grenade while the Jacksons were touring overseas. An upcoming documentary was said to include new allegations that their late brother, pop icon Michael Jackson, had sexually abused two young boys. The reaction from eldest brother Jackie was simple: Here we go again.
The family is dismissing these new allegations made by the two-part, four-hour documentary, Leaving Neverland, though none of his brothers have yet seen it. The film focuses exclusively on the lives of two young boys Wade Robson and James Safechuck, now grown up who say they were molested during overnight stays at Jacksons Neverland Ranch in rural Santa Barbara County, California, in the 1980s and 1990s.
The documentary, airing Sunday and Monday on HBO, comes amid memories of two earlier court cases where Jackson, who died in 2009, was accused of sexual abuse by two other boys who had become close to the singer. A 1993 civil case was settled out of court, and a criminal investigation was dropped. A 2005 criminal trial ended in acquittal.
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The Jackson family refuses to accept the allegations and suggest that the two men at the center of Leaving Neverland are motivated by a desire for money and fame. Both have filed lawsuits seeking damages that a lawyer for the estate estimates would amount to hundreds of millions of dollars.They missed the California deadline for suing the estate of a dead person, and the cases were dismissed. Both are on appeal.
If it goes to trial, says Jonathan P. Steinsapir, an attorney for the estate, We feel pretty good that we can win that trial.
This week, in a private room at a hotel restaurant in Beverly Hills, four members of the Jackson family gathered for a day of interviews to defend Michael and attack the documentary. Among them were three original members of the Jackson 5: Jackie, 67; Marlon, 61; and Tito, 65, who wore his signature bowler hat.
You think if Michael was here they would be doing this? No way, insists Jackie. My brothers not here. So its an easy target.
None of Jacksons brothers are direct financial beneficiaries of the Michael Jackson estate, which controls the singers assets and has experienced boom times in recent years. The estate earned $2.1 billion in profits (adjusted for inflation) since his death, according to Forbes. The Cirque du Soleil show Michael Jackson: Oneis in its sixth year in Las Vegas, and the stage musicalDont Stop Til You Get Enough is planned to open on Broadway in 2020. The estate has also filed a $100 million lawsuit against HBO.
But the documentary, first seen last month at the Sundance Film Festival, could damage that momentum and tarnish Jacksons legacy. The family noted that Robson, a successful choreographer, filed his first lawsuit in 2013, after he wasnt hired for the One show in Vegas. Both Robson and Safechuck had also testified that they had never been abused by Jackson.
Among the most forceful defenders of the pop superstar is his nephew, Taj Jackson, 45, son of Tito and himself a survivor of childhood sexual abuse (by an uncle on his mothers side), who joined his uncles in this interview with Rolling Stone.
As a child of the same generation of these accusers, Taj enjoyed many sleepovers at Neverland, and says he knew Robson well. Like his uncles in the Jacksons, he says its not possible for him to believe the allegations. And with Michael gone, its up to the family to protect his name and reputation. Were a unit, you know? he says. And when lies happen like that, we all defend because we know the truth.
Why are you speaking out on this documentary?
Marlon: If your brother was deceased and someone wanted to slander his name, youd be supporting him. Thats not him. Thats not his character. We definitely know our brother and this documentary is very one-sided and there are no facts whatsoever to corroborate what this documentary is all about.
Have any of you actually seen the documentary?
Marlon: Im not interested in seeing the documentary. Its something that has no validity to it.
Taj: Ive read the transcripts. I want to see it. I wanted to see it before they wont let me see it. I know what its about, so I feel very free speaking about it. Thats my generation. Wade Robson is someone that I know very well.
Were you aware that this documentary was being produced?
Marlon: No.
Jackie:I heard about it in Australia two or three weeks ago. Me and the brothers were touring and my managers came up to us and told us, This story is coming out on your brother. I dont think its going to be a good one. And I said, Here we go again. Thats when we got worried about the whole documentary. Thats why were here to help our brother.
Were you at Neverland a lot?
Taj: I was a lot. Probably over 200 times.
Did the rest of you also spend much time there?
Marlon: Were grown men. We have kids. Weve got our own thing to do. We dont follow Michael around.
Jackie:Weve been there many times.
Marlon: I mean, weve been to Neverland but we didnt hang out at Neverland.
This isnt the first time these kinds of accusation have come up. People will look at this documentary with that in the back of their minds, which is going to affect how they interpret it.
Marlon: I beg to differ because, if they check the facts, then they wont. The facts tell a totally different story than what this documentary is representing.
Taj: Our family in the past has been so quiet about it because weve been taught to turn the other cheek. So theres a lot of lies that have lasted for 20 years that have become part of the public consciousness, which arent true. A lot of people dont know that the 1993 allegations were not about sexual abuses it was about negligence. And nothing stopped that kid from testifying in a criminal case. He wanted his money his father wanted the money. Once they got the money, they were not concerned about the case at all. And a criminal case could have still happened if the DA in California had any evidence. And a 10-year investigation by the FBI produced nothing.
[Editors Note: The 1993 civil suit accused Jackson of sexual battery, seduction, willful misconduct, intentional infliction of emotional distress, fraud and negligence. The case settled out of court, only addressing the claims of negligence.]
I was at Neverland plenty of times when my uncle feared that Neverland was bugged. So with 10 years of being surveyed and surveillance as much as Michael Jackson was throughout his life and theres no evidence.
What did he do about it?
Jackie: He was pretty upset. Neverland was raided and you would see all the cop cars at his ranch. He was out of town touring when they would do this.
Taj: They took his computers, they took everything and they didnt find one scrap of evidence. Now we all know that when theres a child molester, you take their computer youre going to find something. Seventy sheriffs [deputies] raided that place. It looked like a drug bust. We watched on TV. They didnt find one scrap of evidence that he was a child molester.
Marlon: So here you have a documentary that [Dan Reed] sold to HBO. He trusted Wade and he trusted Safechuck that they were telling the truth which is nothing wrong with trusting them. But you must verify. HBO, huge company dont you think they would do their due diligence and make sure that what theyre disseminating out to the public is fact? Theres no facts at all to corroborate what theyre saying. And he only interviewed Wade Robson and a few of his family members, and Safechuck and his family. He didnt call the Jackson family. He didnt call some of the other kids
Jackie: Or Michaels friends or people who knew Michael, who loved Michael. They didnt talk to any of those friends.
Marlon: There was no interest in talking to them. He didnt want to compromise the product that he was putting together because he wanted to be one-sided, one way. And Im not making this up. Its about the money.
Money for who?
Marlon: Hold on, what do you mean money for who?
For the network? For the two guys ?
Taj: Its definitely all the above. We live in a world where currency is popularity through followers, through social media the more popular they are, the more money youre gonna make. Thats just a fact. And its not a coincidence that both Wade and James have appeals going right now against the estate for hundreds of millions of dollars. So they have an interest in saying Michael Jacksons a molester. Dan Reed has an interest because theres plenty of journalists that have made their career off of Michael Jackson. The director even said he was looking for a high-profile case to hang his hat on. You cant get more clear than that.
There are other things that are at stake for the family, right?
Marlon: I dont think so because theres no facts. They have not produced any evidence that will corroborate this documentary. So there arent any facts on their side. And what were telling you, you can go look it up: its on the record; its in magazines, in articles. Mr. Wade, constantly on video telling: Michael was my mentor. He got me started in this business. If it wasnt for Michael, I wouldnt be doing this. Hes an amazing guy.
Even when he was living, there were jokes that Michael liked to hang around little kids and have them sleep over. On60 Minutes, he was asked about this. Ed Bradley said, Do you still think its acceptable to share your bed with children?
Jackie:He was sitting there with his own children. My kids were there; his nieces and nephews were there, and people just sleeping around in their pajamas watching movies and films.
Taj: You cant live your life for what other people think. I grew up in that atmosphere. I grew up with pie fights and water balloon fights and stink bombs, and people would say the same thing. What is a grown man doing throwing water balloons or pie fights? But my uncle was a kid at heart and that was the thing that I dont think people understood and people didnt understand him. Everyone that knew him understood that from Elizabeth Taylor to Diana Ross, everyone thats been around him has understood that and has been very constant in saying that. But I think you had to live that to understand it because society always wants to think the worst.
The documentary states that there were occasions when it wasnt Michael and a bunch of kids, but sometimes him and one kid alone. Is that true?
Taj: Yeah. But theres other stuff in the documentary that states certain things that are easily proven false that theyre not touching upon. Like they never mentioned in the documentary that Wade Robson dated my uncle Jackies daughter for over seven years because it doesnt fit their timeline. They want you to believe that at the same time that hes supposedly in love with Michael Jackson, hes dating my cousin Brandi from seven years old to 14 years old. But that doesnt fit the narrative. So they conveniently hide that.
After the trouble he had with the civil case in 1993, and then the more serious criminal case, should he have done more to protect himself?
Marlon: If youre doing nothing wrong, why should you do more to protect yourself?
Because he almost went to prison?
Marlon: Well, heres the problem: We as people are too quick to judge. Were supposed to love one another. Judging should be done by the Lord. We should be coming together. Yeah, he went to court. They didnt find any evidence. Not only that, Mr. Robson and Safechuck testified and Wade Robson twice, once as an adult. And they said that Michael never did anything inappropriate to them. The story changes all the time. Theyre still in a lawsuit with the Michael Jackson estate right now it gets thrown out, they appeal it. Its all about the money.
Taj: When youre a target for over 20 years, you get numb to it. Its not like all of a sudden my uncle got attacked for something. Hes been a target his whole life as soon as he hit a certain status. There were rumors about him about this or rumors about him about that. He trusted people, he believed in people, he thought people will see the truth.
Jackie: Or about his nose job, people just picked on him all the time no matter what. He was the biggest star in the world. So its tabloid, to make money.
At some point one of his lawyers must have said, Michael, maybe you shouldnt be doing this, because its going to lead to that kind of trouble.
Marlon: He told me this, I love kids and one of the things I like about kids is they dont want anything from me and Im here to help. But when I talk to some adults, I feel like theyre trying to get something from me.
Taj: Me being around at the time as a kid, you view life differently. When youre doing nothing wrong, you dont want to change anything especially if you feel you were put on this earth to help people. You feel like, well why am I here then? And its like a parent telling a kid, you cant be that. And I think thats what society was trying to do. They took the one thing that inspired him, that his creativity and they turned it and they made it negative and they knew they were doing it.
Marlon: Weve been in this business all our life, and it was difficult. I remember Michael and I were going to junior high school; the kids were outside the classroom just staring at us. This is back in 71, 72. It lasted for two weeks because it was just crazy at school for us. We couldnt do anything. And thats how it was that a lot of times wherever we would go, and what that does to you. You really dont have that connection with the outside world of what people are really about. And when I got married and became an adult, I trusted everybody. I found out that you cant trust everybody.
These two guys had at least off and on contact with Neverland and Michael over a long period of time. How do you explain them saying this stuff now?
Taj: Wade praised my uncle all the way up to MJ One, where he didnt get the job as head choreographer/director. Right then and there he started shopping a book deal. This is not something that were saying, this is something thats fact. He started shopping a book deal about sexual abuse. No publisher would pick it up. So then, a year later, he decides to sue the estate. This is the timeline that this is all happening. James Safechuck sees Wade on Matt Lauer and says, Oh my God, that happened to me, too. So its like all these memories are happening because theres an opportunity. Dont forget, theyre hearing about the estate making billions of dollars at this point from Forbes and all this other stuff. And Wade has honestly lived his whole life using Michael Jacksons name and using that legacy.
Isnt it possible that something could be going on that you werent aware of?
Taj: Michael Jackson was probably the most-scrutinized, under-a-microscope person that the world has seen for a long time.
Jackie: I know my brother. Hes not like that.
Tito: This went to trial as well; I think it was 12 counts. Michael was basically I always use the word unusual because his heart was pure. I used to feel bad because when I was 20, 21, 22, I was able to go to the local bar and get a beer and sit down with a friend and hang and maybe shoot a few games of pool and talk to a girl. He never had anything like that. Not even as a child. He never played baseball. We would have family day at the Hayvenhurst house where the family lived. Wed want to grab Michael and have a business meeting to talk about what were going to do for our future. He was busy playing with my sons, Jackies kids, running around. We want to go in the studio and talk about business. But it was fun to him. He didnt have that.
Can you imagine not being a kid when you are a kid? You got to go do some work for Motown or do a Rolling Stone interview or Ed Sullivan Show or Carol Burnett? We did that every day. His life was, we went to school; right after school, a driver would pick us up, take us right to Motown studio. And this went on for three or four years. We would record a song a day every day.
Marlon:And he took a jump to another level that a lot of entertainers dont reach. He couldnt go down the street. To try to feel what others feel out in the street, he would put on disguises. He was in Warehouse Records in Encino. I just happened to go to Warehouse with my two little kids and Im looking for stuff and I see this man with a stack of records. He had an afro, protruding teeth, and hes walking around. He went up to pay and I walked up behind him, and I said, Michael, what are you doing in here? He said, Marl, how did you know it was me? Youre my brother! You dont think I know how you walk?
This documentary is going to come out and theres a chance it will inspire others to come out with these kinds of accusations.
Taj: Theyve had 20 years to do that. The DA in 1993 was looking for anyone to do this. They actively put all their resources into it. So this is not something new for us. How many people can withstand a 20-year investigation, a 10-year FBI investigation, 300 pages of FBI notes and nothing.
Marlon: Keep in mind, the director, Wade Robson, Mr. Safechuck no evidence whatsoever to corroborate with what this documentary is all about. Zero. They spent zero time and they could have talked to me. They couldve talked to family or talk to people who knew Michael.
In some of these cases, you werent there when this other person was.
Taj: But I was. I saw the interaction between Wade and my uncle. I was there the day he testified. I saw Wade introduce his fianc to my uncle. But not only that, as me being someone that has been sexually abused in the past, youre aware of that. It was by my uncle on my moms side of the family, my uncle Chuck. I was under 10 years old. And it wasnt only me, it was my brother as well. So youre very aware of everything, just like a battered wife would be very aware of other battered wives. Even if they deny it, you are aware of it. You sense it. I watched my uncle and Wade interact. I hooked up the VCR for Wade to play his short film at the time. He was so proud to show it to my uncle. Just like he was proud to introduce his wife, Amanda, to my uncle. Thats the thing that not only dont make sense, theyre not getting scrutinized. Theres the Wade when my uncle was alive who was benefiting from the magic and then theres the Wade that now has a kid and is financially in trouble and needs to make money.
What do you expect the impact of this documentary will be? A lot of people are going to see it.
Marlon: The people that love Michael Jackson, that know Michael Jackson, like we do as a family, theyre not going to believe that story. Its a quick money grab. Thats all it is.