In 2013, when Chris Cuomo agreed to make the jump to CNN from his longtime post at ABC News, the anchor made one thing clear to his new employer: Im confrontational, Cuomo remembers telling Jeff Zucker, the president of the network. I will engage. Thats what I do. And hes held fast to his promise. Between co-hosting the cable news networks morning show, New Day, and recently taking onCuomo Prime Time which is in its second week Cuomo has emerged as one of political journalisms most fearless and unflinching interviewers. Hes brash, brusque and completely disinterested in partisan spin which is why hes perhaps best known for his frequent verbal sparring matches with some of Trumps most vigilant lackeys, like Kellyanne Conway. And as a testy interview last fall with Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders proved, Cuomo doesnt discriminate along party lines.
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Sitting down with Rolling Stone on a recent morning, Cuomo says not holding truth to power would leave him more exasperated than any untruths his guests could ever spout off. The only reason I do this job is to call bullshit on people and to be a witness to history, says the 47-year-old son of former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, and brother to the states current governor, Andrew Cuomo. Testing power is something that I am good at. And its useful for me to do it. It wont be popular, and it gets people angry I understand that. But Im OK with that because I believe Im agitating for the right reasons. And plus, not doing it would be unforgivable. In a 20-minute chat during a rare moment of free time between his shows, Cuomo explained his strategy for conducting interviews, the downside to calling out Trump and why hes confident hell be interviewing the President before years end.
Political anchors especially those on CNN have long played the role of the centrist mediator. But youve taken a different approach: you typically take your guests to task and, frankly, can often get overly aggressive in your line of questioning.
You are rarely hearing my opinion on television. In fact, I am often testing positions that I dont necessarily disagree with. I am not there to just be a conduit of somebodys spiel to my audience the abuse of truths and toxicity of spin requires more. And thats what weve been doing. Politics was easier to cover when people werent so blatantly abusive of facts. So you cant just sit there and take it. Journalists are being forced now to make choices that we dont usually have to make, especially in the anchor position.
Which is what?
Am I going to be an active check and take the negativity that comes along with that? Or be like, I can do my job. I can do it straight. I can be fair but Im not going to really stick my nose in there too much because people are crazy and its too mean and its to vociferous. I understand and I respect that choice. I made a different choice.
Is some of that choice fueled by the media having its credibility openly questioned by the president?
Absolutely, theres no question about that. I mean, the President is trying to paint the media as seditious by definition. Its a return to the 1790s. But I definitely think you can make a difference now in terms of giving the people trust that power is not unchecked. The mistake in our business, though, is that people confuse relevance with popularity. And theres an instinct to be liked, especially when youre on TV. And thats poisonous for us. Because if you get in the business of being popular either youre going to lay off in controversial situations, because you dont want to be seen as a negative agent, or youre going to go all in on one side and cultivate that audience for yourself. And we are seeing those choices play out in real time in cable television.
On the Fox Newses and MSNBCs of the world.
People are making the choice to be all in on one side. And unfortunately, while its being done in the name of balance and in the name of truth, its really just deepening the divide. Thats feeding this move towards the tribal. I think thats a mistake.
It can seem like CNN often goes out of its way to present both sides, even if it means trotting out some analysts with questionable credentials or, in the case of Jake Tappers recent interview with Trump advisor Stephen Miller, someone who is clearly disinterested in being truthful.
Its a question of perspective and preference. I get why Jake did what he did and in full disclosure hes a friend of mine. We worked together for a long time at ABC and he was one of the reasons I came to CNN. So Im biased. But again, I get why he did what he did. My preference is to engage. Instead of saying Look, youre not here to answer my questions so forget it, Im going to expose the fact youre not answering questions by telling you youre not answering them and being combative about it. But I dont like the idea of saying Im not going to have someone on. I dont believe in that. I know it would be popular with a big part of my audience to not have on voices that they dont like to hear. I get it.
What then compels you to have those types of voices on your show?
Because Im going to test those voices. You have to be open. Because if youre not open, brother, you do not grow in terms of your opinion. Im telling you, I was raised in a house with an amazing intellect and a powerful, strong, convicted voice. But my father spent so much time listening to his adversaries, because thats how you get stronger in your own position. People have lost sight of that. To be relevant you have to be real. You gotta have both sides on and you gotta test them.
Knowing your combative interview style, Id have to think some diehard Trump backers might prefer to steer clear of you.
The only people who wont come on, in my opinion, are not up to the challenge of proving themselves right. The people who are convicted in what they believe, who are confident, who are real, they come on. [Ohio Republican Representative] Jim Jordan hates almost everything I ask him. But he comes on, hes gracious to me, Im gracious to him, we get after it. He knows Im not just there to be a dick. Im not there to be oppositional. Im just checking this guy on what I think is fair and right and he knows that. And thats true of all the Republicans I have on the show.
It seems like some guests come in ready to fight.
And thats fine. But I think thats a mistake, because often my disposition is to let you go as long as it makes sense. Im not there to tell you I dont like what youre saying. As long as youre staying straight with the facts and your arguments make sense its going to go fine.
With a president who tweets at a manic, absurdist clip and plays fast and loose with the truth, how responsive do you need to be to his social media diatribes?
I understand why in the beginning people were like Dont cover every one of his tweets. He had an axe to grind that so often was personal; he was just settling scores. But [now that hes] president I dont agree with that approach. Because hes president, de facto everything he says is an official statement from the White House and the U.S. government. And I have always been so eager for a window into what politicians are actually thinking and feeling about things instead of having to get it through some third party. And now I get that in real time. So its not about whether to not to cover it, its how to cover it. What I try to do with the tweets is call out things when theyre a distraction, call out whats wrong with it, and see them as an instructive part of the dialogue. And theres another dynamic thats new, or at least Ive never been aware of it before in real time: he watches.
President Trump?
He can say he doesnt watch CNN all he wants, but you know hes listening to what you say. But theres a price for that. Hes an active enemy. Hes certainly willing to call you out and try to insult you and hurt you personally. And while people can laugh it off like, its the best thing you can ask for on your resume, you say that when youre walking with your kids down the street and have Trump people stop you and want to talk to you about things. Now, Im insulated a little bit from that because of where I live and because of my size.
As in people are physically intimidated by you?
When youre on television everybody expects you to be the same size. They dont expect a vanilla gorilla walking around at [62,] 225 pounds [laughs]. So they dont come at me as much. But theres a price for pushing back on power. And I get why people are slow to want to buy into the compromise. But I just think its my best value right now to our audience.
I suppose its obvious, but I take it you would love to interview President Trump?
I definitely want to interview the president. And I will interview the president. I think it will happen this year. Why? Donald Trump is his best advocate. Donald Trump is at his best when tested. He kept coming back to me on the campaign trail because he respected being tested like, come at me with whatever you want.
What is your general preparation for an interview with someone you deem an active enemy like the president?
I read and study 24/7. I have to know the stuff cold and think constantly about who Im interviewing, how theyve used this information before and where the holes in their argument have been. I have to go through it almost prosecutorial in terms of thinking about what their answer is gonna be. One of the comments I get is How do you do it with a straight face? Why dont you get angry? I dont get angry because its not personal to me. And Im ready for it. I expect whats going to be said. And when they get personal and insulting to me, thats when I have a smile on my face. Because I dont care what you say about me, and Im used to it, and frankly its a sign of weakness. If youve got nothing to say but to attack me personally, youve got no way to defend your argument anymore. Can I say one other thing?
Of course.
I take my job super seriously, but I dont take myself seriously at all. Larry King gave me a great piece of advice, and actually Tim Russert may he rest in peace had also given it to me before. When I started to get some traction in the business, Timmy said, Youre loving yourself right now, but be serious about the work. Never worry about how youre perceived. You cant control it, and its not about you. Thats always stuck with me.
Though I imagine its easier said than done in the social media age.
It is. But you know what, you gotta keep yourself straight and stay humble about it. Its not about you. Im not the president. Nobody elected me to represent their interests. Im an intermediary between power and people. And youve gotta keep that straight in your own head.