Birdman doesnt like lettuce wraps. Hes appalled by the watery leaves and aromatic meats sitting on the table in front of him. He keeps repeating the same phrase: We Southern. According to Birdman, people below the Mason-Dixon line wont find joy in such a delicacy. Hes sitting in a private dining room at Philippe Chows, on Manhattans Upper East Side, surrounded by ceramic panda bears cradling chopsticks and an entourage of men that adore Mezcal Mules.
A few moments later, one of the most influential rappers ever to spit a bar enters the crimson room and darts toward the food. Juvenile is overjoyed to see the lettuce wraps. Two unpredictable Southern legends and one contentious appetizer, here to represent Cash Money Records past, and its murky future.
At 50 and 44, respectively, both Birdman and Juvenile are comfortably in the black uncle phase of life. Theyre promoting their joint album, J.A.G. (Just Another Gangsta), but they cant help referencing everything they built over 20 years ago, when records like Ha, Back That Azz Up, Bling Bling and I Need a Hot Girl were some of the most inventive hits to grace the charts, transmitting New Orleans to the rest of the globe. At one point Nile (as Birdman likes to call Juvenile) reminisces about a mysterious concoction Baby used to give him while the Hot Boys were in the studio.
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Man bust in that bitch with a gallon full of some weird shit hed done got from the club, from some white boys, a gallon full, Juvie says. What that shit we used to be drinking?
I dont even remember, Birdman says.
Cash Money artists can run from home, and many have, but they almost always find their way back. Brothers Bryan Baby Williams and Ronald Slim Williams started the company in New Orleans in 1991, and since then its gone through three major phases. There was an initial lineup thats been largely forgotten, with regional acts including UNLV, Miss Tee, Kilo G and Pimp Daddy; the label-defining late-Nineties era, led by Juvenile, B.G., Turk and Lil Wayne, a.k.a. the Hot Boys; and the Young Money era of the 2000s, led by a solo Lil Wayne, Drake and Nicki Minaj.
Remember this, I came to Cash Money off a failed project, says Juvie, recalling the first time he signed with the label in the 90s. They got me from a bus stop, brother. I was getting on the bus on my way to my house coming from work. They took a chance on me.
That bet paid off handsomely for the Williams brothers. For a bright and brief moment in the late 90s and early 2000s, Juvenile was Cash Money. Between his solo work (Solja Rag, Ha, Back That Azz Up) and contributions to the Hot Boys, he rewrote the style of Southern rap. At 21, he was the groups oldest member, surrounded by teenagers grasping for his throne. Juvenile recalls what it was like recording in the studio with his three groupmates with clarity and joy. Between the laughter a fleeting sadness creeps in; those times couldnt last forever.
He [Birdman] used to give us the subject and wed be in there and be literally in competition, Juvenile explains. Itd be Wayne in that corner, me over there and Ill prolly say some shit like Imma fuck yall up on this song, nigga. You better get yo shit together.
You encourage them, Birdman interjects.
Juvenile starts to laugh.
Wayne was so slick, he says. Wayne would listen to all our shit and go in the fucking corner. Nigga come back with some brrrrt sound effects and brrrrrp blinging all. I said, Man.
In 2001, Juvenile left the Hot Boys and Cash Money Records over contractual disputes, but he re-signed with the label in 2014. Before a question about their past feud has a chance to breathe, Juvenile intercepts.
Way back then we cleared up everything we had between each other, because they paid me, he says matter-of-factly. We settled the money thing. That was way back and that was solved. Time heals all.
J.A.G. is the next step, presumably, in that healing process. The pair started the album a year ago, recording together in Miami. This shit was personal, Birdman says. We want to bring that N.O. [New Orleans] shit back.
Birdman and Juvenile spend much of the album in search of refining their past glories. The production features live instrumentation, replayed samples and a New Orleans bounce thats reminiscent of Cash Moneys early days with a 2019 sheen.
A majority of the conversation at Philippes features Baby and Juvie obsessing over what makes Cash Moneys new in-house producer, DRoc, eerily similar to their former in-house producer, Mannie Fresh. If anyone was instrumental to Cash Moneys swift ascent it was the quirky, galaxy-inflected beats of Fresh, who handled the production for all of the Hot Boys, teamed up with Birdman as part of the Big Tymers and frequently featured his voice on hooks and verses.
Since Mannie, the only thing I can say is nobody ever did that shit. No nigga wont even let a nigga do they whole album, ever, Birdman says passionately. That shit just dont exist no more in the business. I think why I choose to let a nigga [DRoc] do the whole album is so we can catch a vibe. The vibe we catch is the vibe we stick with, and if the vibe we catch the people like, we aint never gotta change it.
There are a lot of things Cash Money Records has been reticent to change. Its part of their success. Birdmans strategy is simple.
I just dedicated my soul to making these young men what they could be and their potentials could be and could get us out of this ghetto, Birdman says.
Its hard to know what that 20-odd year record of dedicating his soul to making money on music has done to Birdman, except that it contributed to a hardened exterior. Any sacrifices seems likely worth it to him, considering that Cash Money Records has made $1.8 billion in gross revenue according to Forbes. After a few sips of Veuve Clicquot Ros, it becomes clear what draws new artists to Baby, and why old artists come back. Magnetic, prickly, but charming, Birdman has the look of a man whos always calculating, and always ready to make someone in his orbit a new millionaire. Its partially why Juvenile is back in the fold.
What other direction to go? Juvenile says, speaking of his Cash Money reinvention. What better direction to go, but back to where you was at?
The goal for Birdman moving forward? Excess. He wants more more artists, more projects, more imprints, more moguls. He tells me his plan is to one day release 100 albums in a year. His list of official and rumored imprints Cash Money West, Juveniles UTP, Young Thugs YSL are so long its hard for him to remember them all when prompted. He describes his next phase as minting moguls like Juvenile, Wack 100 and Young Thug.
I did a deal with Thug, where Im embracing YSL and the talent that they got, he says. You know he like my lil brother. I got nothing but respect and love for Thug. Embraced him in this game and I really like that he on his CEO shit I like what Thug did with Gunna and all the shit hes doing.
Baby is less than forthcoming when asked about the role played by 300 Entertainment, the label that has released Thugs music since 2014. Thats his personal thing that he got with them, he says. But me and him got our own personal thing that we doing.
Theres an inspirational quality to much of what Birdman says about himself. I want to empower black people Because the game not gon do it for em, he says. Cause Im in it behind the walls. They not bout to give them the power to do these things.
I study this shit. I look at the Isley Brothers them niggas got 35 albums, 4 live albums, 101 singles, Baby continues. Man, no rapper dont do no shit like that. You can name your best rapper, he aint got 15 albums, he aint got 10 albums, he aint got 20 albums. For these dudes to accomplish 35 and 30 albums, that just shows me we got a lot of work to do.
With Cash Moneys first prodigal son returned to the fold, its impossible to avoid the fact that the labels guiding light for over a decade is no longer there. Their past was Wayne. Their future was supposed to be Wayne. Now their present is without a focal point. In conversation, Birdman and Juvie arent shy about their pride for the kid who used to watch them from a corner, plotting his takeover. Theyre as animated on this subject as theyll ever get.
At one time bro, Wayne was the whole music industry, Juvenile says.
Wayne was like Tupac, Birdman lobs back. I fed him that. I fed him that. I fed him that game.
I think he was bigger, bro, Juvenile says. I think way bigger.
But what I mean by that, Tupac was the only other person who had that much music, Birdman says. Wayne was trained like that, but Wayne did a lil more than Pac because he put out way more music. The hundred singles on the charts in one year with all other rappers.
Now Birdman and Juvenile are looking for the next Pac in a stable of growing artists. At every stage of the dinner names like Jacquees, Blueface and DRoc are mentioned with an air of possibility. At one point, Baby and Juvie go on a tangent about their pride that Blueface bought his first million dollar house. But as I leave, its Wayne their first spiritual and artistic son that gets all their admiration, even even if, contractually, hes an estranged member of the family.
When asked what the pair discuss besides music, Birdman swoops in. We talk about the future. I see so much he still has to do in this game. I just think hes one of them artists. Some niggas learn how to rap. He was born to rap to me, Birdman declares. I think that he got so much to do and I want to see him accomplish it. All this shit he hasnt since our departure. So me when Im speaking to Nile I encourage him on what Id like to see him do Talent-wise I think hes going to be a big imprint in the game.
A consummate salesman, after 20 years, Birdman can still reel off speeches about his original protege. When I look up the lettuce wraps are gone.